Author Topic: Black sheep banned at nursery (Read 16885 times)

laama · « **on:** September 26, 2009, 06:29:53 PM »

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/education/s/207/207086_black_sheep_banned_at_nursery.html

A NURSERY is teaching children to sing Baa Baa "rainbow" sheep rather than Baa baa black sheep - to avoid causing offence.

The new words to the traditional ditty, which generations of children have sung, have been altered by bosses at the Family Centre in Abingdon, Oxfordshire and the Sure Start centre in nearby Sutton Courtenay.

Stuart Chamberlain, the Sure Start centre's manager, told the Oxford Star weekly paper: "We have taken the equal opportunities approach to everything we do.

"This is fairly standard across nurseries. We are following stringent equal opportunities rules. No one should feel pointed out because of their race, gender or anything else."

But the charity Parents and Children Together, which runs the two centres, as well as two others in Didcot and Berinsfield, insisted the changes - which they have made in all of their family centres - were not down to race issues.

Energy

In a statement released today, PACT said: "PACT has established that children at the two family centres sing a variety of descriptive words in the nursery rhyme to turn the song into an action rhyme.

"They sing happy, sad, bouncing, hopping, pink, blue, black & white sheep etc and they also exchange boy and girl at the end of the rhyme. This encourages the children to extend their vocabulary and use up some energy.

"PACT is an organisation that values diversity and above all encourages children to enjoy themselves and have fun."

A straw poll of other local nurseries revealed that the alterations are not standard.

Jill Edge, of The Sunshine Centre in Banbury, north Oxfordshire, said the move smacked of "tokenism".

She said: "We sing Baa Baa Black Sheep and Baa Baa White Sheep because that's reality, that's what the children see in the fields and it encourages them to look around them.

Issues

"Realistically, they are not going to see rainbow sheep in the fields. There are much better ways of addressing these issues."

The earliest known printing of the words to Baa baa blacks sheep was 1744.

The educational rhyme, with its onomatopoeic bleating, is intended to teach children about the wool trade and the animals that produce it. At the time England produced some of the finest wool in Europe.

In 2000, proposals to ban the rhyme in Birmingham nurseries on the grounds it was negative and could cause offence were rejected by the city council.

WTF they are thinking?

Diabolico · « **Reply #1 on:** September 26, 2009, 06:49:32 PM »

They are not thinking, that's the problem. At such an age, too much is getting put into this, more should be put into general attitude and environment. Its more what could cause offence, rather than it causing offence.

Thou "rainbow" sheep, if I was to look at with PC glasses, is more offensive, it makes me think coloured.

Skadi · « **Reply #2 on:** September 26, 2009, 08:54:03 PM »

^ those are the 2 things I thought first.. well.. after I thought.. 'geez.. how stupid!'

Then I wondered if the rainbow was the symbol for gay other places besides the US. And how jacked it is to have to squeeze rainbow into the measured beat that black fit into

heh.. whatever

pc goes too far sometimes

dweez · « **Reply #3 on:** September 26, 2009, 09:07:09 PM »

There is such a thing as too PC.

frankcapri · « **Reply #4 on:** September 26, 2009, 09:12:43 PM »

Is black considered a racial slur now? The kids in my wife's class occasionally will look
shocked at her when she she says someone is black (in a book or story they're reading.)

African American only goes so far. If a black guy from Havana moves to the US, he's probably
going to call himself Cuban and not African American. Further, calling a black woman who is English
African American is ridiculous.

Skadi · « **Reply #5 on:** September 26, 2009, 09:31:00 PM »

^ yup.. I don't get the continual shifting of proper terms. By trying not to be insulting.. sometimes it comes off as insulting.

Quote from: dweez on September 26, 2009, 09:07:09 PM

There is such a thing as too PC.

is that a mac vs. pc joke

dweez · « **Reply #6 on:** September 26, 2009, 09:41:22 PM »

Hehe, it could be.

Skadi · « **Reply #7 on:** September 26, 2009, 10:03:15 PM »

^

Quote from: dweez on September 26, 2009, 09:07:09 PM

There is such a thing as too PC.

And, I agree.. it's definitely always good to be sensitive to other people. The trouble comes when akward moments crop up.. and walls get built up because people are afraid anything they say will be the wrong thing. It's hard to find balance sometimes in life.

goldshirt*9 · « **Reply #8 on:** September 27, 2009, 12:38:36 AM »

thanks for that post.
never knew that .
apparently a lot of nursery rhymes relate to something in history.

you can go tooooooooooooooooooooo far to be PC.

i wonder if it was a white person who thought about it.
did anyone ask the black community if it offended them or should we just censor our entire literary history to omit the word black.
where my friend works at school its all Heritage this , Heritage that now .

Bloody PC tossers

Robin-Graves · « **Reply #9 on:** September 27, 2009, 03:48:49 PM »

Nice sig,, vid is from Hot Fuzz,, good comedy.

Anyway,,, as for the pc thing.
I once asked a school admin about why they are so politicaly correct,, he said it was to cut down on people being offended.
I told him " cowpoo!!! Im offended that these lamos are offended by non pc language".
He looked at me funny and walked away.

I guess its going to go to the extent of manhole covers are going to be person hole covers, man and wife will be person and partner , and the man on the moon will be the person on the moon.
You can see it all on Late Night with David Letterperson.

I saw a film on early pc,,,it was in black and white and hard to understand at the time, since it was all in German.

Diabolico · « **Reply #10 on:** September 27, 2009, 04:43:29 PM »

Thanks for posting that, Aelthric

.

This is probably full of conjecture and fail. If I can explain it >_>; people that see something as offensive A) the so-called offensive word or phrase isn't about them or their backgrounds, B) sometimes a meaning gets twisted from its original meaning, C) with all the good intentions, it just makes things worse. It makes it an "morass".

All the above with a large side of contradiction. I used to see Equal Opportunities and Equality of Opportunity as a contradiction.

One example being from the both of them, treat people equally, but at the same time give opportunity to progress by individual help. Am I putting too much into it?

Quote from: frankcapri on September 26, 2009, 09:12:43 PM

Is black considered a racial slur now?

I hope not. It depends on the context and not the word. Example sphincter can be offensive, its how the word is used and the context.

Robin-Graves · « **Reply #11 on:** September 27, 2009, 06:13:29 PM »

Exactly.
Like in Australia,,calling someone a scallywag ( this is me mate Jonas,hes a scallywag) is a term of endearment,here in the states its likely to get you shot.

I personaly dont condone the whole pc thing. I concider it a violation of free speach.
But,,thats modern America for you.

Another thing, did you know its not pc to dislike our current president since if you dont like him,, your evidently "racist".

mishca09 · « **Reply #12 on:** September 27, 2009, 06:55:21 PM »

i dont think calling someone a scallywag would get you shot in america now. girls are calling their friends bitches, whores and sluts and they mean it in a good way.

JackFrost · « **Reply #13 on:** September 28, 2009, 11:26:09 AM »

Quote from: frankcapri on September 26, 2009, 09:12:43 PM

Is black considered a racial slur now?

Y'know I've noticed this, too...

Some people seem to think it's racist when you simply acknowledge someone's ethnicity.

The director of my concert venue, used to shush and scold me whenever I'd call Persians, well.. Persians. She was under the impression I was slurring them by employing what the promoter of the show called himself and the patrons who would attend. Some people are knee-jerk quick to call others racist it seems.

So just to end it, I brought the guy into her office and asked him if he could please tell her that not only was he Persian but that the designation was not offensive.

She wasn't amused that I essentially forced her to disavow herself of a previous held notion, however she has been less irritatingly PC when it comes to recognizing a group's heritage.

indie180 · « **Reply #14 on:** September 28, 2009, 12:34:42 PM »

I am not racist in any way. I have always told my children no matter the colour of a persons skin, their blood is red and if you cut them open, they are the same colour on the inside as them

Quote from: JackFrost on September 28, 2009, 11:26:09 AM

Some people seem to think it's racist when you simply acknowledge someone's ethnicity.

I live in a wee village up in the hills in Scotland. I have only even spoken to 3 Black/Coloured/Ethnic people in my life. One was the most beautiful woman I have ever seen in America, one was a friend of a mate's in London and one was an ex-soldier from Ghana (who I worked with for a short time, I did like our conversions).

Some people from other Nations take offense at shortening the name of their Country into a name that people call them and call it racist.

Scotland>Scottish>Scot, I take no offense as I take none in being called 'A Jock or A Sweaty' (Sweaty Sock = Jock)

Are we such a laid back, tolerant nation.

I live in what was a coal mining community and have been calling one and other 'Black Bastards' for as long as I can remember. It has nothing to do with the colour of skin pigment, but a reference to Personal Hygiene

dweez · « **Reply #15 on:** September 28, 2009, 12:58:40 PM »

Quote from: indie180 on September 28, 2009, 12:34:42 PM

I am not racist in any way. I have always told my children no matter the colour of a persons skin, their blood is red and if you cut them open, they are the same colour on the inside as them

So you encourage your kids to cut people open?!?!?!

indie180 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 28, 2009, 01:03:40 PM »

Quote from: dweez on September 28, 2009, 12:58:40 PM

So you encourage your kids to cut people open?!?!?!

Aye, we're such a laid back, tolerant nation.

dweez · « **Reply #17 on:** September 28, 2009, 01:43:08 PM »

* dweez scratches Scotland off his "Vaction Spots" list

dweez · « **Reply #18 on:** September 28, 2009, 01:51:23 PM »

indie180 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:01:12 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sawney_Bean his cave is about 20 miles from me.

laama · « **Reply #20 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:08:49 PM »

Quote from: indie180 on September 28, 2009, 01:50:53 PM

What do you think Haggis is made from.

Haggis is new word which replace words black sheep.

indie180 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:20:17 PM »

Quote from: laama on September 28, 2009, 02:08:49 PM

Haggis is new word which replace words black sheep.

Inside out Sheep.

frankcapri · « **Reply #22 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:21:04 PM »

Quote from: indie180 on September 28, 2009, 12:34:42 PM

Scotland>Scottish>Scot, I take no offense as I take none in being called 'A Jock or A Sweaty' (Sweaty Sock = Jock)

Where the connection between a sweaty sock and Scottish person come from?

As you're probably aware, in the USA a "jock" is somebody who plays sports (generally a jock is thought to be of questionable intelligence).

indie180 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:24:15 PM »

It's Cockney rhyming slang.

Sweaty Sock, the second word sound like Jock.

Apples and Pears = Stairs

frankcapri · « **Reply #24 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:26:24 PM »

Ah. Where did the "sweaty" come from? Is there a stereotype about Scotsmen being sweaty?

indie180 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:31:24 PM »

Quote from: frankcapri on September 28, 2009, 02:26:24 PM

Ah. Where did the "sweaty" come from? Is there a stereotype about Scotsmen being sweaty?

Ask Smoke's he was the first person I ever heard refer to the Scot's as Sweaties, but my feet are howling.

dweez · « **Reply #26 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:37:42 PM »

A "Jock" is also so called because they wear jock straps.

frankcapri · « **Reply #27 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:40:16 PM »

True dat

Quote from: wikipedia

A jockstrap (also known as a jock, jock strap, strap, supporter, or athletic supporter) is an undergarment designed for supporting the male genitalia during sports or other vigorous physical activity.

What could they possibly be referring to?

dweez · « **Reply #28 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:44:09 PM »

If you can't be an athlete, at least be an athletic supporter.

indie180 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:45:52 PM »

To the North West of Scotland they are known as Teuchters. To the North East of Scotland they are know as Sheep Shaggers.

dweez · « **Reply #30 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:46:42 PM »

lolol

frankcapri · « **Reply #31 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:50:44 PM »

Rainbow sheep shaggers?

indie180 · « **Reply #32 on:** September 28, 2009, 02:55:58 PM »

There's plenty of mushrooms about here, at this time of year.

Diabolico · « **Reply #33 on:** September 28, 2009, 04:29:53 PM »

Where does the term "black shops" come from?

indie180 · « **Reply #34 on:** September 28, 2009, 04:34:00 PM »

Quote from: Diabolico on September 28, 2009, 04:29:53 PM

Where does the term "black shops" come from?

Never heard of that before.

Diabolico · « **Reply #35 on:** September 28, 2009, 04:45:27 PM »

Quote from: indie180 on September 28, 2009, 04:34:00 PM

Never heard of that before.

Local shops, sometimes located on corner of streets. Thou:

On the right is Black's shops. Originally, these shops were small, flat-topped, temporary, lock-up shops - just a small shop with a single shop-window and dooor to the right.

http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?resourceIdentifier=20031021_71534366&DISPLAY=FULL

laama · « **Reply #36 on:** September 29, 2009, 12:58:02 PM »

Quote from: frankcapri on September 28, 2009, 02:50:44 PM

Rainbow sheep shaggers?

chekovsulu · « **Reply #37 on:** September 29, 2009, 04:52:22 PM »

Quote from: Diabolico on September 28, 2009, 04:45:27 PM

Local shops, sometimes located on corner of streets. Thou:

On the right is Black's shops. Originally, these shops were small, flat-topped, temporary, lock-up shops - just a small shop with a single shop-window and dooor to the right.

http://www.leodis.net/display.aspx?resourceIdentifier=20031021_71534366&DISPLAY=FULL

Those be shops owned by Mr Black. Little known fact this, he be the father of Captain Black of Spectrum fame.

Spoiler (hover to show)

redlandslide · « **Reply #38 on:** September 29, 2009, 07:50:31 PM »

Quote from: indie180 on September 28, 2009, 12:34:42 PM

I am not racist in any way.

I always get suspicious when someone starts a post with that line.

Quote from: indie180 on September 28, 2009, 12:34:42 PM

I have always told my children no matter the colour of a persons skin, their blood is red

I say that to Everton supporters all the time (well, I tend to substitute the word kit for skin), as well as pointing out that Everton's badge has the word "nil" on it, conveniently, something no Blue-nose seems to have noticed.

Quote from: indie180 on September 28, 2009, 02:45:52 PM

To the North East of Scotland they are know as Sheep Shaggers.

I thought that was the Welsh.

On the subject of PC, yes it's ridiculous that they change the words of a nursery rhyme because the word "black" appears in it, and it's also ridiculous that my kids school doesn't use a blackboard, they use a whiteboard (which isn't apparently racist), but it's only a nursery rhyme. Nothings changed. As long as my kids are being educated properly I really don't give a monkeys what colour sheep they're singing about.

subvinorosa · « **Reply #39 on:** September 30, 2009, 04:41:05 AM »

I wanna hear them sing it properly with rainbow instead of black. Won't it be out of melody or something?

And PC? Meh. We wouldn't need PC if we all respect each other and not jump to conclusions that the other is being a racist prick. It's like we need to be PC because the other party might think we're racist if we're not. Being PC is being proactive so as not to hurt anyone's feelings and to avoid being labeled as a racist.

indie180 · « **Reply #40 on:** September 30, 2009, 03:37:22 PM »

Racism is not really a big problem where I stay, but Sectarianism is a very big problem in the West of Scotland.

I am an Atheist, so I don't get involved with that one. (Moved that statement down a paragraph, just for you Red.

)

My wife has two brothers, one is a Rangers supporter the other support's Celtic.

Here's some more PC gone mad. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4398680.stm

frankcapri · « **Reply #41 on:** September 30, 2009, 03:39:47 PM »

Merry celebrity everyone!

chekovsulu · « **Reply #42 on:** September 30, 2009, 03:52:08 PM »

Halloween offends me

smokester · « **Reply #43 on:** September 30, 2009, 04:39:36 PM »

Quote from: indie180 on September 30, 2009, 03:37:22 PM

Here's some more PC gone mad. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4398680.stm

That's basically where I live and it is so multi-cultural that you couldn't imagine anybody ever being offended by any other religion, creed, colour, race or whatever, it would just get lost in the post.

That article does actually say it is in error.

Quote

The council spokeswoman said an official was concerned about people from other religions.

She said: "It was a junior-level decision and it happened to go into print which was an error basically".

"I think it was certainly not a council policy that we should call the lights winter lights."

Diabolico · « **Reply #44 on:** September 30, 2009, 07:57:31 PM »

But who are the spokes people? There are two in that news report, they are both unnamed. How did such a mistake about the lights get overlooked?

Code: [Select]

"I think it was certainly not a council policy that we should call the lights winter lights."
That isn't a statement of certainty, "I think".

Yes I am being picky

indie180 · « **Reply #45 on:** October 01, 2009, 12:08:33 PM »

Quote from: smokester on September 30, 2009, 04:39:36 PM

That article does actually say it is in error.

Is the error that they can't decide what to call them. $:-\$

Quote

In three of Lambeth's main town centres, the lights were referred to as "Winter Lights", while in a fourth they were called "Celebrity Lights".

redlandslide · « **Reply #46 on:** October 01, 2009, 02:31:48 PM »

Celebrity lights? I don't understand, are the lights famous for something? Have they made a film? Or slept with Jordan?

frankcapri · « **Reply #47 on:** October 01, 2009, 02:39:31 PM »

It's a PC fail.

Apparently the people of the fourth city centre are too dense to understand that celebrity does not equal celebration

Diabolico · « **Reply #48 on:** October 01, 2009, 02:41:46 PM »

Quote from: redlandslide on October 01, 2009, 02:31:48 PM

Celebrity lights? I don't understand, are the lights famous for something? Have they made a film? Or slept with Jordan?

They give anyone and now anything celebrity status; so why not give some Christmas lights celebrity status, sure they can't sing or act. But in the world of celebrities is that any different?

Who hasn't slept with Jordan, I hate how some went on about how Jordan is a feminist, when in reality she exploits her own image.

frankcapri · « **Reply #49 on:** October 01, 2009, 02:43:11 PM »

Who is Jordan?

chekovsulu · « **Reply #50 on:** October 01, 2009, 02:46:04 PM »

Katie Price is a woman with big fake boobs. She's Peter Andre's ex-wife.

frankcapri · « **Reply #51 on:** October 01, 2009, 02:51:45 PM »

She has a gold record. Wow...

chekovsulu · « **Reply #52 on:** October 01, 2009, 03:01:11 PM »

What?!

Wow!

frankcapri · « **Reply #53 on:** October 01, 2009, 03:05:00 PM »

If I get boob implants can I get a gold record from the Brits?

redlandslide · « **Reply #54 on:** October 01, 2009, 03:06:26 PM »

Quote from: frankcapri on October 01, 2009, 02:51:45 PM

She has a gold record. Wow...

Maybe she slept with Rod Stewart and lifted it off his wall on the way out.

smokester · « **Reply #55 on:** October 01, 2009, 04:16:15 PM »

Quote from: indie180 on October 01, 2009, 12:08:33 PM

Is the error that they can't decide what to call them. $:-\$

It says:

Quote

it was an error by a junior official and not council policy

Which I presume was an idea of an low ranking individual, that should have been checked and sanctioned by the council's board or governors etc, but they are such a lazy bunch of arse wipes that they thought the planning their christmas party was more important - bet they bent that up too..

Diabolico · « **Reply #56 on:** October 01, 2009, 04:54:06 PM »

Yes, read it, went away for a few hours, read it again, then a day later read it again. It just reads as if a paragraph was missed out.

It quotes some spokeswoman:

Quote

"I think it was certainly not a council policy that we should call the lights winter lights."

Geemonster · « **Reply #57 on:** October 09, 2009, 01:08:40 PM »

I think it's nuts.
White people are more offended than black people,this is OTT.

Robin-Graves · « **Reply #58 on:** October 09, 2009, 06:35:55 PM »

Im offended that some people get offended.
Lets see them fix that one!

Diabolico · « **Reply #59 on:** October 10, 2009, 06:29:35 AM »

Quote from: aelthric on October 09, 2009, 10:07:57 PM

I watched Demolition man tonight and was struck by the similarities between the Hellish Politically correct world depicted in that movie and the way we seem to be sleepwalking our way towards it...

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demolition_Man_%28film%29#Setting

It is explained that anything deemed "bad for you" is now illegal, including alcohol, caffeine, contact sports, non-educational toys, meat, spicy and unhealthy food, table salt and tobacco. Firearms can only be seen in museums. Physical contact was recognized as causing the spread of disease and is now seen as unusual. Even high-fives have been replaced with energetic waving. "Sex" is no longer a physical act for the same reasons, and even kissing is not condoned. Instead, "Vir-Sex" is performed by using sex simulators worn on the participants' heads to replace physical intercourse. Procreation is carried out in a laboratory; abortion is illegal, but so is unlicensed pregnancy.

Its similar to Sleeper (1973).

A bit of a odd question, when Phoenix is accessing a terminal, he says some stereotypical line to himself. Was that in the version you watched?

Quote from: aelthric on October 09, 2009, 10:07:57 PM

Already we are seeing the mainstream music industry churning out jinglistic crap (won't be long before everybody is singing bless'ed valley of the jolly green giant)...

xD

Steps ftw.

Geemonster · « **Reply #60 on:** October 10, 2009, 06:43:12 AM »

Frank Zappa coined it perfectly,"Dumb all over,and maybe even a little ugly on the side"

Robin-Graves · « **Reply #61 on:** October 10, 2009, 09:50:21 AM »

Damn,, never thought of it that way,,seems we ARE headed that way.
Maybe I DO want to run around covered in jello with weasels strapped to my thighs.
Maybe i just feel the need to run outside and yell " IM NOT CONTENT!" at the top of my lungs.
Maybe I want to run into the offices of NOW magazine and yell " which one of you hotties wants to take me home, give me a foot massage and fix me a nice dinner and give me a blow job after?"
Also,, I might h ave a death wish. lmao

dweez · « **Reply #62 on:** October 10, 2009, 12:39:04 PM »

Full of win:

Quote

Edgar Friendly: You see, according to Cocteau's plan I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think; I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I'm the kind of guy likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder - "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecued ribs with the side order of gravy fries?" I WANT high cholesterol. I wanna eat bacon and butter and BUCKETS of cheese, okay? I want to smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section. I want to run through the streets naked with green Jell-o all over my body reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly might feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiener".

Robin-Graves · « **Reply #63 on:** October 10, 2009, 06:36:04 PM »

As for all the PC things happening, Im doing my part to make them all have a job.