Computer/Technology => Technology => Topic started by: davidsolomon83 on June 13, 2009, 03:16:03 PM
Title: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: davidsolomon83 on June 13, 2009, 03:16:03 PM
Links:
"Star Trek" makes faster-than-light travel look easy, but according to new calculations by Italian physicists, a warp drive could easily create a black hole that would incinerate any passengers on a space craft and then suck Earth into a black hole.
"Warp drives are so far the best case scenario to attain faster-than-light travel," said Stefano Finazzi of Italy's International School for Advanced Studies. This paper "makes it much harder to realize, if not almost impossible, warp drives."
In normal physics, nothing can move faster than the speed of light. Einstein's theory of relativity forbids it. In normal space any object approaching the speed of light will increase in mass exponentially, and require an exponential increase in the amount of power needed to propel it forward.
There are two exceptions to this rule however. The first is what's commonly called a worm hole, a bridge connecting two different parts of space. A ship crossing this bridge would move at below light speed, but still arrive before a beam of light that would have had to go the long way around.
Warp drives are the second and more appealing option. A ship can't move through space faster than the speed of light. But with enough energy, space itself can move faster than the speed of light.
Known for the Mexican physicist Michael Alcubierre who originally developed the idea in the 1990's, an Alcubierre warp drive would create a bubble of energy behind the ship and a lack of energy in front of the ship, like a giant cosmic wave a space ship could surf. That particular section of space can travel faster than the speed of light in the surrounding space, and anything on or in that bubble will accelerate with it.
Finazzi and his colleagues propose creating this bubble of space-time by using a massive amount of "exotic matter," or dark energy. (Exactly how this bubble would be created is still a mystery.) According to their calculations and simplified, it would take a huge amount of energy to create the bubble, and then increasing amounts of energy to contain the highly repulsive dark energy.
Eventually the energy would run out. The bubble would rupture, with catastrophic effects. Inside the bubble the temperature would rise to about 10^32 degrees Kelvin, destroying almost anything on the bubble.
Anyone watching the ship nearby wouldn't be much better off.
"We know that the warp drive will be destabilized," said Finazzi. "But we do not know if it will in the end explode or collapse to a black hole."
Other physicists agree with the Italians' calculations, up to a point.
"It's a good paper; their results are sound," said Gerald Cleaver, a professor of physics at Baylor University who reviewed the work. The results make sense, at least, when creating warp drive using exotic matter in a universe where 1 plus 1 equals 2.
In a universe where 1 plus 1 equals 3, a possibility with string theory instead of the semi classical physics used by the Italians, a stable warp drive is viable.
Last year Cleaver and co-author Richard Obousy detailed a string theory-based warp drive that creates a bubble of space time by expanding one of the tiny, rolled-up dimensions (instead of a bubble of dark energy) predicted by string theory.
The biggest sticking point to a extra dimension-based warp drive? The entire mass of Jupiter would have to be converted into pure energy to power it.
The real question is not whether a warp drive, which by Cleaver's estimate is hundreds of years away, will be stable or not. It's about the fundamentals of the universe; do we live in a universe where 1 plus 1 equals 2 or 3? Until scientists can answer that question, there will be significant limitations on scientific models of the universe.
"These papers suggest limitations to what we can and can't do," said Cleaver. "We as scientists enjoy these papers because then we can look for ways to get around those limitations."
hundreds of years away, :-\ , but hundreds of years ago if you had told someone we walk on the moon, they would have laughed at you ;)
Title: Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: hmed2390 on June 14, 2009, 12:36:21 AM
Quote
The entire mass of Jupiter would have to be converted into pure energy to power it.
Oh my. :-\
Quote
do we live in a universe where 1 plus 1 equals 2 or 3? Until scientists can answer that question, there will be significant limitations on scientific models of the universe.
That's an interesting point. I really like that question. I'm going to read into that whole idea.
Quote
hundreds of years away, :-\ , but hundreds of years ago if you had told someone we walk on the moon, they would have laughed at you ;)
That's the spirit. ;) Great thread david, really awesome read. :)
Title: Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: davidsolomon83 on June 16, 2009, 04:58:04 PM
Quote
The entire mass of Jupiter would have to be converted into pure energy to power it.
The first time I read the article, I thought, OK, so it need a lot of energy.............But
later on I thought, this is the e = mc 2 energy, only a few grams of the heavy elements produce so much, and then take fusion ( the process inside stars ) and thats even more, and when you consider all m ( which is Jupiter ; some hundreds of times that of earth ) then it is a lot of energy :-\
Title: Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: Skadi on June 17, 2009, 08:44:03 AM
The subtitle under one of the phots is a bit alarming also :o
Star Trek makes faster-than-light travel look easy, but new calculations show a warp drive could easily create a black hole that would incinerate any passengers on a space craft and then suck Earth into a black hole.
:D
Title: Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: davidsolomon83 on June 17, 2009, 02:20:29 PM
^ more like sci-fi dark humor Skadi :-\
I wonder if we will ever be able to make a warp drive in the real physical world
Title: Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: Skadi on June 17, 2009, 06:32:01 PM
Yes, but them we'll blow ourselves up immediately after :D Humans are too stupid to live.
Title: Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: smokester on June 18, 2009, 08:43:13 AM
You could always go gay, but I can't guarantee you that I'll wait for you as long as Skadi's around. :o ;D :D :D :D
ha..that's what I'd meant... a wedding for you and David. That last exchange had gotten a little cozy and wistul on David's part regarding how wonderful you are :D
Title: Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: subvinorosa on June 25, 2009, 06:33:50 AM
Ahem.
Ahem.
Ahem.
Ahem.
Ahem.
Title: Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: dweez on June 25, 2009, 07:07:37 AM
Stay on target.
Title: Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: Skadi on June 25, 2009, 08:02:05 AM
ha..that's what I'd meant... a wedding for you and David. That last exchange had gotten a little cozy and wistul on David's part regarding how wonderful you are :D
Title: Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: hmed2390 on June 26, 2009, 12:26:10 PM
:D
We're a wild group.
touche. ;D
Title: Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: Robin-Graves on August 30, 2009, 03:20:56 PM
Actualy,, to build up the energy to create a warp bubble ( or better, a Geller Field surounding the ship) would be best powered by an ambient arc lamp backed by a Bussard ram Jet. The Arc lamp will exponentialy create a surplus of energy ( it creates energy exponentialy) and a Bussard ramjet is powered by the intake of hydrogen. The faster it goes, the more hydrogen it takes in. Unfortunately, hydrogen at t light spead becomes gamma rays. But this can be stopped from happening by using an elecromagnetic field to slow the hydrogen atoms down to sublight speed, negating the radiation. Then the energy from the arc lamp can kick in.
Just an idea......
Title: Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: smokester on August 30, 2009, 04:16:05 PM
Actualy,, to build up the energy to create a warp bubble ( or better, a Geller Field surounding the ship) would be best powered by an ambient arc lamp backed by a Bussard ram Jet. The Arc lamp will exponentialy create a surplus of energy ( it creates energy exponentialy) and a Bussard ramjet is powered by the intake of hydrogen. The faster it goes, the more hydrogen it takes in. Unfortunately, hydrogen at t light spead becomes gamma rays. But this can be stopped from happening by using an elecromagnetic field to slow the hydrogen atoms down to sublight speed, negating the radiation. Then the energy from the arc lamp can kick in.
Just an idea......
Sounds good to go. All we need now is your design for the Inertial dampeners?
Title: Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: dweez on August 31, 2009, 08:53:46 AM
Are we forgetting about the Flux Capacitor?
Title: Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
Post by: hmed2390 on August 31, 2009, 05:11:46 PM