Topic: So I keep figthing this creationist

[Santafer]

I'm still between Atheist and Agnostic. I got no problem with God (the good one, not the richard that some people prefer to believe in), but simple stupidity just enrages me. If you decide to use the Bible as a guide, fine, but holding it as truth is retarded. Saying scientist highjack science for evil using evolution is retarded.

Especially when the excuse is this

An elementary rule of Scripture is that God has deliberately included "SEEMINGLY" contradictions in His Word to snare the proud. He has hidden things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes (Luke 10:21) purposely choosing foolish things to confound the wise (1 Corinthians 1:27). If an ungodly man refuses to humble himself and repent of his sin and instead desires to build a case against the Bible, God gives him enough material to build his own gallows.

Uh huh. I just hate when people can't admit they maybe wrong.

[CMF]

There are so many people out there who use The Bible as a weapon. They interpret its passages in their own way.
So, at the end, with all these mixing and lying, we get a version which, I bet, is entirely different than the original words.
And then you get people fighting over it like they had nothing else to do. Like they had no families to feed.
It is just stupid and senseless. And then, I do not go against religion, since I am kinda religious myself (well, I do not go to church at Sundays, but I still believe in God), just against stupid believes that got into the religion.
And it is not only in Christianity, but in almost any religion out there, that this had occurred.

And then I cannot believe why people always associate science with going against religion.
What I mean is, that if God had created the world, or at least had planned it, then he must have known of all the scientific laws out there. So, doesn't this make him a scientist?

And let's not forget that one of the founders of modern physics, Isaac Newton, was also religious person.

In brief, I just wanted to say that I hate deeply religious people who go against science and scientists who are against religion. If, only once, we would cooperate together, then world may be a better place to live.

But this is just dreaming in technicolor  since world is absurd and senseless. And so absurdity will go on ... until death tears us apart.

[Santafer]

I don't religion per ce. I hate how is is used and misinterpreted.
Oh I sadly erased like 10 mails from that guy, but after he condemned a christian friend of mine to hell for no believing enough and that's he reason for her dying of cancer, I lost my poo.

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=HzmbnxtnMB4&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3DHzmbnxtnMB4

Check the last pages of comments for bornagain001, I'm natzo89. Yeah my comments are not the best, but after 10 minutes you know you can't talk to this fool....yet I have been in this poo for 4 days.

I comment that I would like to help people creating electronic prosthetic limbs. And he says God don't care about that, only that you thank Jesus for dying. But then he says God judge people...say... the aztecs for their good deeds, yet not us... And he say God is benevolent, but then that God only care about holiness, not your happiness.

And don't get me started with the "TRUTH".

[CMF]

Either he is a no-life just messing with you, either he is someone really crazy.
Religion, or no-religion, there will always be nutcases out there. 

[Santafer]

I never meet someone so close minded in my life. I blocked him, even though I wanted his answer to a few of my questions, of course of every 10 I make he only answers 3, and poorly.

The SUN RISES in the EAST and SETS in the WEST. This saying indicates the sun moves and the earth is stationary. People say it all the time even though we know the difference. You are trying desperately to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Yet the earth axis is inclined. The sun don't rise in the same spot in the horizon everyday. That why in Manhattan only once a year you can see it set in one of the streets. And the our knowledge of the space is so limited to claim we are in the same spot. You are trying to to make true out of a myth.

That is the problem with you Religious people you give so vague and simple minded answers that can be molded into anything.

"How do I get there?" Go west..."but exactly?" GO WEST!

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"LET ME ASSURE YOU...YOU WILL. Nobody who has rejected Christ will escape payment."

We will see, after all I have no proof that that judgment will even happen other than, again, the treats from crazy uncivilized primitives

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"Unfortunately...it didn't. Those who arrived as skeptics, left as skeptics. You are NO DIFFERENT than the skeptic of 2000 years ago."

You are no different from the ignorants from 2000 years ago. Jesus probably didn't care about the lepers that came later to left a cure for them.

Maybe when you grow up and gain rel knowledge we will talk again.

Not limited to myself







We need Father AJ.

[JackFrost]

Religion is an organized fear of the dark.

Those who think they've already got it all figured out because it says so in the Bible are generally irrational based on this fear. I find these people will be deliberately obtuse than admit I might have a point.

This guy seems, like others of his ilk, that he's more trying to convince himself of his own beliefs. My god is bigger than your god... 

I try to not get i nto with these people, but sometimes I do something stupid and draw them to me.

For instance, I was in a forum where someone jokingly said: "I'll give anyone $200.00 if they can prove Jesus wasn't real."

I replied with a very simple post saying that the reason Jesus is fictional is because he came back from the dead, and I added "And that poo only happens in comic books."

His reply was to create a straw man, insinuating that I'd suggested that comic books proved that Jesus wasn't real.

When I finally got him somewhat straight on what I was saying he offered that maybe there was a physical Jesus, he just never came back from the dead. 'Then He is not the Jesus described in the Bible, and some might even consider your idea heresy.'

After trying to get him to understand that the idea of the god is the god, he settled instead on trying to prove the physical existence of Christ, which is an argument that is really beside the point frankly. It shouldn't matter if he physically existed or not... 

He eventually went apeshit and threatened to kick my ass both in PMs and in the forum itself when I told him that Jesus was both fictional and did good things.

So I know where you're coming from Santafer, when you meet a true believer who is beside themselves because you still have questions. 

By the by, have you ever had to deal with one of these people in person?

Because that, my friend, is a whole 'nother animal.... 

Good post, but always keep in mind that adage about arguing on the Internets and the Special Olympics... 

[Santafer]

Yeah I already blocked him, should have done it before, cause I want to rip his spine through his eyes.

[smokester]

Arguing about religion is akin to banging your head against a brick wall.  The only beneficial thing about them both is that if feels good when you stop.

[CMF]

Arguing about religion is akin to banging your head against a brick wall.  The only beneficial thing about them both is that if feels good when you stop.

 
Oh, you, sinner 

Where is Reverend AJ to help us in these situations?

[dweez]

I have a hard and fast rule (that I often break) and that is "There are two things you never discuss online...Religion and Politics".  You stick to that rule, no matter what, and you'll avoid 99.94% of the headaches.

[Methiah]

When arguing with creationists you should never take the direct route (although I have been guilty of this in the past and in some cases just for fun). It must be done indirectly otherwise you just get a mental wall/barrier errected and so becomes impossible. It must be initially contrived to make them think in your way without their knowledge (indirection) and then deliver the payload, without it seeming to be a direct attack and then let them stew it over.
What was he a regular Christian or a YEC?

Strangely enough we don't get Mormons knocking on our door anymore so I must be getting something right although we are still getting Jehovahs witnesses  and they still want to keep talking about scriptures.

[smokester]

Unfortunately I live in bible basher central Now when I open the door I usually just put them on to the double-glazing salesman that's on the phone.

There was I time when I told the Jehovahs I was a Catholic, they'd give up the ghost immediately.

[frankcapri]

An elementary rule of Scripture is that God has deliberately included "SEEMINGLY" contradictions in His Word to snare the proud. He has hidden things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes (Luke 10:21) purposely choosing foolish things to confound the wise (1 Corinthians 1:27).

Can you at least get this guy to admit that he worships an bottom?

[Methiah]

Well yeah, that would get rid of them temporaily but it depends on one's objectives. If you need to de-program, say a loved one, from their holy clutches then one has to be careful or else one gets labelled as the demon spawn.

Can you at least get this guy to admit that he worships an bottom?

This sounds like the direct attack method. It does not work.
The whole concept of "worship" is abhorrent to me.

[frankcapri]

This sounds like the direct attack method. It does not work.

I bet it would work to make him angrier.  I agree with you.  I was just joshing around

[Santafer]

I did actually, he said god doesn't care about happiness, that he could fix everything but won't until everyone worships him. I made him admit he was a horrible father himself.

In the same mail he told that Christ will judge the good deeds, even though that was what I told him to begging with, the if there is a god I expect to be judged for good actions not simply believing. Yet when I tell him I should love to develop ways to help people he says I have yet done something to make the world better(not like he has done anything) and that God won't care about that, only that why we rejected him for dying for our sins. He contradicts himself.


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Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand I just pick another fight. sorry but I can't stand ignorant cowpoo.


At least it tried being civil, even if this one keep saying I have to see the light.

I don't want to spam that channel any more and I apologize if my comments offended you. It's just that when people claim stuff without basis or understanding of the others point of view it enrages me. I respect the good Christians that don't push their points of view into others and call the sinners. I was raised Christian and I have read the bible ans since people says it is open to interpretation, I have to say that what I read was horrible and full of lies and despicable acts.

Understand my point of view. You people claim the bible is perfect, infallible and the truth. Yet is is filled with prophecies that never happened, things that are physically impossible and just outrageous crimes int he name of God, and sometimes cause God told them to.

You gotta admit that you have very little knowledge of history and other people myths to actually claims your is the correct when your has much in common with all those you decide to negate.

If you want to believe that is fine. But I see religions as an escape mechanism to the fear of death and responsibility, because praying does nothing, you have to do it yourself. And I believe that if there is a god he is not such a richard like in the bible, and he will judge everyone regardless of religion and thanks to their own actions. If not, he is not benevolent as he claims to be. Remember this. The church used God to get money, cause if you were not part of the church and give them money you were going to hell. It's the same today. Those donations? that car the priest rides didn't pay itself. People don't like to have their stuff taken? They made stealing a sin. They don't want other to kill them? Make it a sin, even if they are murderers themselves. People don't want to accept they are mortal and will die so they made an afterlife. I only accept mortality and

I have hope that we can make this world better, if we work together, but God doesn't have to be part of it, specially looking at what doing to word of god has done through history (crusades, killers that claim to hear God)

And please don't quote the Bible, you won't convince anyone like that.

Have a good day and sorry if I was a richard.

[subvinorosa]

If they're online I can keep them away.

When I'm living with them, I put on my bestest ever behavior.  They are my in-laws after all and I have them to thank for my King. (Oh wait a minute...!)

Now when they are my relatives, food seems to end conversations pretty well.

[tarascon]

These folks are unaware--or really just don't give a drat--that Charles Darwin was a faith-based Christian himself and struggled with it his whole life to the extent that he had gastric pains. But he was also a solid empiricist who did not ignore the evidence of his own eyes and mind.
I personally think that the evolution/creationist "debate" is a red herring; who's to say that god (God, if you prefer)--who worked in the material world of matter--did not use evolution as an act of creation (Creation, if you prefer).

[smokester]

....who's to say that god (God, if you prefer)--who worked in the material world of matter--did not use evolution as an act of creation (Creation, if you prefer).

That's too untidy for most religious folk.  In my experience they prefer their shirts pressed and in the right drawer.

[tarascon]

^ Truth. Sad truth. lol

[xtopave]

Maybe they're just stubborn and shut their minds to anything different to what they have been told to believe. The concepts of evolution and natural selection are really very tidy but you have to be willing to understand them.

[Beatrix]

That's too untidy for most religious folk.  In my experience they prefer their shirts pressed and in the right drawer.

Not always.

What's unfortunate is that it is not only the religious folk.  A great many people still don't believe we came from exploding stars, and at the end of the day, it's almost common knowledge.

[bubu]

People don't like the unknown they prefer to believe in an old book and in what somebody else said. Don't you think is frightening to think about stars and Universe, and to understand that human beings are less than a crumb in all that ? And most people want to conform so developing a chritical thinking is dangerous...

[Beatrix]

no   I ain't scared any more.  What's frightening is what humans do. 

Critical thinking is fun, but can sometimes hurt. 

[dweez]

I love you all but a lot of what christ has stated is why I have chosen not to participate in this discussion.  I know what I believe and keeping you as friends is more important.

For me though, whether it's evolution or creation, big bang, primordial goo, blah1, blah2, or blah3, it's inconsequential to my day to day living.  My life is a mere blip in history so no matter how we got here, we're here.  Living this life to help better those we come in contact with on a day-to-day basis is a more honorable thing than proving we came from primates or whatever.

[ohcheap1]

Living this life to help better those we come in contact with on a day-to-day basis is a more honorable thing than proving we came from primates or whatever.

Oh snap. We actually agree on something. Hard to tell most times cause youre just shuffling and keeping the peace.

[dweez]

Aw shucks :blush:

[dweez]

Not having friends in the first place is easier than trying to keep them, in my experience.

True, but what kind of life is that?

[bubu]

Friends are everything to me in this difficult period of my life

[dweez]

True, but what kind of life is that?

All I've got.

*sniff*

Awwww!

* dweez hands christ a hanky

[bubu]

He is delusional he has a lot of friends, he just needs to reach out...

[6pairsofshoes]

I tried reaching out once.

I still have the nail holes.

And occasionally, they weep.

People of faith and scientists are not mutually exclusive.  There are mysteries not solved/answered by science. 

On the other hand, arguing with idiots should be done sparingly and only when you've had a full meal and a good night's sleep.  Otherwise, you endanger your own health by indulging in excessive stress.

[tarascon]

I tried reaching out once.

I still have the nail holes.

#ifdef FLAME
ecce-homo-p?
as if they knew. idiots!
#endif /* FLAME  */

[smokester]

Faith is part of the human condition, too: arguing with someone that has faith in something is a pointless exercise. Having faith is not the same as stupidity, but not everyone is foolish enough to say that they need proof to believe (and, in truth, must people that think that they do require proof are really satisfied by something that is much, much less than actual evidence when it is really examined closely).

Just because science appears plausible, it isn't always (or even, actually, very often) right.

I am not what one would generally call a creationist, but I really do not understand how some (most?) people believe that something as complicated as binocular vision evolved spontaneously.

Darwin very effectively demonstrates how a bird with a longer beak gets more honey than one with a smaller beak, but has absolutely nothing to say about how bilateral symmetry "evolved", or why five is a good number for toes, but most "evolutionists" think "natural selection" => "primordial goo is demonstrably but a few steps away from humanity". balls, says I.

On a related topic: if a force needs a substrate to enable it to act, how does a proton attract an electron, when there is nothing small enough to act as a vehicle for the electromagnetic charge? This little poser stops no-one in the chattering classes from "knowing" what an atom looks like, and how it "works". This too is faith, if slightly disguised.

There is absolutely nothing in the modern canon of scientific knowledge that proves that creationists are unarguably wrong. To be sure, it is probable that not all varieties of all species are really separate, and there is a plausible excuse to say that, therefore, some evolve from others, but this does not mean that we have proved that a platypus evolved from mud.

"I believe in evolution, na-ni-na-ni-na-na, you are an idiot" is no better than the creationist argument, really.

Not that most creationists aren't idiots, but that is a different argument.

Evolution ain't that hard to fathom, it's just a process of trial and error. It fails far more than it succeeds which in turn gives the illusion that "we" are more evolved than other species.  My internal jury is out on that one.

I'm waiting for the first coming of Q as I really need someone/thing to sort out my back, and praying just isn't working.

[6pairsofshoes]

I'll remember that advice the next time I get a yen to wrestle something.