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Offline JackFrost

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Avatar
« on: December 21, 2009, 11:41:18 AM »


This film is astonishingly good.

But, as I said elsewhere, that all really depends on who you are and what type of films you like. If you do not like long, meticulous films or sprawling epics, stay away; if you do not like science fiction films, this one will not convert you; if you do not like your films to have a 'message', then, by all means, avoid Avatar.

"If someone's sitting on poo we want, that makes them our enemy. And we think we're justified taking it." - Jake Sully

For me, I have two complaints with the film: 1) it really didn't need the Celine Dion-esque 'song' "I See You" for the end of the flick - if Cameron thinks this will be as appealing to women as Titanic, he is mistaken; and 2) even at 2.5 hours, it wasn't long enough. There were pieces of character development clearly missing from the film, the bulk of which was between actual human actors. But I understand the need to sacrifice some of it so that the outstanding CGI, on which they spent most of the time and money, could make the screen.

The CGI is above-Pixar-level. But while Pixar's forte is making things we're familiar with look ultra real, Avatar brings to reality an unfamiliar world - and very convincingly, I might add. Especially in light of the fact that a lot of the film is not animated. The CGI is laid atop motion capture of actual actors, including all of their facial expressions and emotion. The effect makes it difficult to tell you are not watching actual living organisms. Sigourney Weaver's big blue Avatar looks so much like her, you'd swear it was just make up at times. But if you tend not to like computer animation in general, again I'm not sure this film will convince you otherwise.



The story is colossal, and unfortunately, pieces of it are missing in the film (noticeably if you pay too much attention like I do ;)) and some of it is poorly explained. But not to the extent that you can't enjoy the film anyway.

Spoiler (hover to show)

And while I tend to agree that 3-D is an unnecessary gimmick, I can't agree on Avatar. The 3-D is used to create depth and atmosphere in the movie rather than having things pop out at you. For instance, there are these giant, walking battle mechs that humans drive, but because the Pandoran atmosphere is toxic, they are surrounded by a clear plastic canopy. In the 3-D version, you can see that there's an actual distance between the person and the plastic canopy. And speaking of the Pandoran atmosphere, it's clear like Earth air, but when the two mix, it causes a weird fluttery/shimmery effect that literally hovers in space. Jake's Avatar ends up in a river at one point and the 3-D effect really looks like he's immersed in water. Not to mention subtle things like little bugs flitting around in the jungle scenes.

The movie is not for everyone, but if you like a few of Cameron's other projects, this may also appeal to you as well.

Alright, I'll shut up now.

Offline Geemonster

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2009, 11:46:48 AM »
Unobtanium!  Reminds me of the film Core.
  Is the story good?

Offline JackFrost

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2009, 01:37:49 PM »
Unobtanium!  Reminds me of the film Core.
  Is the story good?

Yes, it is. Even though there should be more of it.

And to be clear, the CGI does not replace the story here.

Offline Geemonster

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2009, 02:17:52 PM »
I'll check it out.

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2009, 11:18:24 AM »
I friggin loved the movie. And as far as that much cgi in a movie,, its rare to see one not sacrifice story for effects like you saw in Avatar.
 There needs to be more movies made like Avatar if they are going to use that much cgi.
Usualy its all cgi and poo story ( 2012, Knowing etc.)
I keep my standards low.
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Offline laama

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2009, 04:26:52 PM »
Thanks to torrent sites,I have seen it.

Not worth of buying or theater visit because it's too long and part of story is missing like they planning to do Avatar2 in some day,I think.
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Offline redlandslide

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2009, 04:31:50 PM »
Thanks to torrent sites,I have seen it.

Not worth of buying or theater visit because it's too long and part of story is missing like they planning to do Avatar2 in some day,I think.

I haven't seen Avatar yet, but I'm guessing a download from a torrent site probably wasn't playing to the films strengths.  :D

Offline CMF

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2009, 05:43:40 PM »
One thing I learned here is that if Jack says something is good, it generally is  :P
(the other way does not necessarily work though: most of the stuff Jack does not like are great  :D)

I'll definitely go see it this Saturday. I hope there won't be many people with all the Christmas stuff...

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2009, 09:28:29 PM »
Avatar is great,, but im also a little wierd when it comes to movies,, I crawl into them.
I loved movies no one else here liked, and I hated movies people here loved.
Avatar has its faults,, no doubt about that,, but as for its streangths,, its a damned sight better than the other crap thats being churned out to the masses.
I keep my standards low.
That way im never disapointed.

Offline JackFrost

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2009, 03:01:35 AM »
Thanks to torrent sites,I have seen it.

Not worth of buying or theater visit because it's too long and part of story is missing like they planning to do Avatar2 in some day,I think.

While there might be a sequel (or even a prequel), I'm suspecting there will be a director's cut version for DVD. Several of Cameron's other films had extra material for video release, so I'm hoping Avatar will as well. Look at the extended edition Lord of the Rings discs, it might be some thing like that.

As far as not liking the film I gotta concur with red:

I haven't seen Avatar yet, but I'm guessing a download from a torrent site probably wasn't playing to the films strengths.  :D

No doubt.

The .avi I found has a pertty crappy picture and the NA'vi language is Cyrillic characters, which isn't helpful. :D

One thing I learned here is that if Jack says something is good, it generally is  :P
(the other way does not necessarily work though: most of the stuff Jack does not like are great  :D)

Wait. What? :D

Lately everybody's been telling me stuff I like is shite, so thanks the support...  :)

I'll definitely go see it this Saturday. I hope there won't be many people with all the Christmas stuff...

Good luck!

Avatar has its faults,, no doubt about that,, but as for its streangths,, its a damned sight better than the other crap thats being churned out to the masses.

Honestly, I feel the faults are pretty minor and one of my major concerns, that some of it is obviously missing, could be cleared up on DVD.

Bottom line: I'm willing to look at more. ;)

Offline ohcheap1

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2009, 10:16:58 AM »
WITHOUT over analyzing it, and taking it at face value I thought the movie was breathtaking and brilliant. I got a freakishly flawless .avi of the movie and now I am totally pumped to go and see it in the theater. I cant even imagine how entranced I will be with the 3D version. My extended family usually tries to see a film together over the holidays and I am voting for this one hands down. As a matter of fact if I dont win the vote, they can go see what they want but Im going to Avatar!

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2009, 12:17:53 PM »
Like I said,, it has its faults ( and like Jack said, they were relatively miner) , but its still a lot better than what Ive seen vomited forth from the movie factory lately.
I keep my standards low.
That way im never disapointed.

Offline laama

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2009, 01:48:58 PM »
I found good quality xvid copy from unnamed source without Russian subs etc.

I have to admit that Avatar wasn't bad,but I don't theater to watch it,maybe someday if good quality directors cut come out I might buy it.
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Offline goldshirt*9

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2009, 02:01:36 PM »
mmmmmmmmmmm in the uk near me there is a
2d / 3d / 18 certificate.
i watched the 3d version today and loved the movie.
the story isn't new but the visual effects are wow.
a poor copy just cannot show the quality of the film.
its the only movie i have watched in the cinema of late that i love.

a no brainer but fantastic anyway.a movie just to watch and the
family loved as well.
if this movie is reviewed well and is likes by the public then no 2/3 will be made (apparently the are written an scripted already ).
a movie to be viewed on the big screen .

a 9/10 for me (nothing is perfect )

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2009, 05:05:20 PM »
Im buying it on dvd to add to my collection( damn thing is over 400 dvds as of now,, and Im picky!)
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Offline goldshirt*9

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2009, 07:28:20 AM »
me tooooooooooooooooooooooooo
i have just sorted all of my dvd's out because i'm just running out of room

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2009, 07:37:44 AM »
Oficial count now is 419,, with about 150 burned ones.
And doesnt look like Im anything close to finished buying them yet.
 I guess this is what you get for not having much company at all.
And well, saturday nights when you do nothing but stay home.
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Offline goldshirt*9

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2009, 07:41:45 AM »
i can honestly say that i have stopped burning movies as much as i use to.
they either stay unwatched in a spindle or the kids loose them.
i find if i like them i buy them.


Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2009, 07:46:43 AM »
Bad thing is, the only place to buy movies here is Walmart ( imagine Asda,, just bigger and more obnoxious,, same company though) or used at Movie Gallery.
 Closest place to buy anything good is in Ft Smith and I dont make it there very often.
Sooooooo,,,I find something a little off the beaten path for Wallyworld or Mover Gallery,, I burn it off.
I got a decent copy of Cradle Of Fear with Dani Filth ( Cradle Of Filth) burned off recently. No place here ever heard of it.
Of course, if it isnt about pickup trucks, bear drinking, or chasing their cousin for sex, they dont hear about it here much.
I keep my standards low.
That way im never disapointed.

Offline ohcheap1

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2009, 07:49:34 AM »
i can honestly say that i have stopped burning movies as much as i use to.
they either stay unwatched in a spindle or the kids loose them.
i find if i like them i buy them.



And the movie studios thank heavens for that!! Do you have any issues with playback on the movies you have burned in the  past?

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2009, 08:00:29 AM »
I do with some brands of DVD player,, but usualy with the cheap one I got a week or so ago I have no issues with any playback,, it even plays PAL format.
I keep my standards low.
That way im never disapointed.

Offline goldshirt*9

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2009, 08:09:14 AM »
some of my early films wont play for my daughter , they judder and skip .
cheap discs / burner worn out.
mostly ok now though

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2009, 02:23:43 PM »
Just burned off one I did a dl on. It came out surprisingly well .( Redneck Zombies).
 I hadf to burn it off, cant even find it online for sale.
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Offline CMF

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2009, 10:34:35 PM »
I just saw it in 3D.


really good.

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2009, 11:57:26 AM »
I thought it was hilarious.
Tromaville Productions is so off the wall it aint funny.
I got Surf Nazis Must Die, Valley Girl In A Dinosaur Hell, Terror Firmer, and Canible A Go Go.
 I throw one in when I need a laugh.
Its the same production company that did the Toxic Avenger Series ( got them too all 4 of them)
Check out Class Of Nukem High.
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Offline JackFrost

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2009, 11:47:28 PM »
I just saw it in 3D.


really good.

Toldja.  ;) 8)

Oh, by the way, your avatar (snicker) and signature almost makes it look like Sheldon's playing the music Arthur's dancing to... :D

Offline CMF

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2009, 12:21:03 AM »
Oh, by the way, your avatar (snicker) and signature almost makes it look like Sheldon's playing the music Arthur's dancing to... :D

 :D :D :D
It is true: they are synced. I never thought about it.  :D

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2009, 09:25:02 AM »
Your a spooky man CMF
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Offline JackFrost

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2010, 05:17:32 PM »
Prit-ee shameless, imvu...:


Offline Geemonster

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2010, 05:32:21 PM »
I've seen Class Of Nuke Em High when i was 17 i think. :D

Offline JackFrost

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2010, 05:46:11 PM »
I've seen Class Of Nuke Em High when i was 17 i think. :D

What? ???

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2010, 08:17:54 PM »
You ought to see part two,, just got it burned to disc
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Offline dweez

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2010, 07:26:57 AM »
Pssst, guys, this thread is about Avatar...keep it on topic.  :)
--dweez

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2010, 08:02:50 AM »
Sorry,, thanks Dweez.
Avatar is cool,, Just got it downloaded, looks like a decent copy.
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Offline JackFrost

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2010, 10:00:15 AM »
What I find funny is all the articles I've come across lately how conservatives despise the messages in the movie.

Some have even gone as far as to say that human compassion and environmentalism were only ideas that are supported in the dreamworld of Hollywood. As if those ideas were just special effects and didn't or couldn't exist in real life.

But ultimately it whittles down to the fact that the movie is a pretty heavy indictment of corporate imperialism and the new 'colonialism', which are conservative 'pet' ideologies.

Some even tried to imply that Cameron just added that anti-corporate stance to the film because it's a popular angle to be anti-corporate right now. But if you look back through Cameron's body of work, it's usually a corporation that is partially or fully to blame: Cyberdyne (Terminator), Weyland-Yutani (Aliens), Benthic Petrolium (The Abyss), White Star Line (Titanic).

So the RDA being the bad guy in Avatar is not a new concept.

If you google "conservatives hate the message in avatar" you'll find some more results.

Offline ohcheap1

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2010, 02:44:29 PM »
If you google "conservatives hate the message in avatar" you'll find some more results.

I did this on your recommendation and your description
Some have even gone as far as to say that human compassion and environmentalism were only ideas that are supported in the dreamworld of Hollywood. As if those ideas were just special effects and didn't or couldn't exist in real life.
is right on the money!!! Nicely put. I was watching Colbert last night and he had Erick Erickson of "The Red State" on and I thought there would be some classic examples of this there. Checked it out and "bingo".

I am having genuine issues with trying to wrap my brain around this whole thing......

Offline dweez

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2010, 03:02:11 PM »
Call me crazy, but I often just see a movie and try and enjoy it.

* dweez shrugs
--dweez

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2010, 03:53:07 PM »
QFT!
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That way im never disapointed.

Offline goldshirt*9

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2010, 01:30:18 AM »
wow
and i just went to this movie for the enjoyment of the film. :-\


Offline JackFrost

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2010, 11:41:43 AM »
Call me crazy, but I often just see a movie and try and enjoy it.

* dweez shrugs
QFT!
wow
and i just went to this movie for the enjoyment of the film. :-\

I fully understand what you're saying - I deliberately avoided looking at anything for Avatar before seeing the film so nothing could influence my opinion or ruin the movie before I could see it and just let it happen. My first viewing was pure enjoyment.

But even after that, I couldn't help but notice that there are ideas and viewpoints in the movie that were going to push some sociopolitical buttons.

However, I had no idea how much conservative pundits would lose their minds over the thing.

Another angle they don't like is when the audience cheers the NA'vi killing humans. They find profound disgust with what they feel is Cameron's blatant disrespect to US soldiers.

But the military in Avatar are actually private contractors (i.e., mercenaries) and not the US military, and the RDA is a corporation, not the US government. So that makes them the equivalent of Blackwater running security for Halliburton.

So, of course, it never seems to dawn on these pundits that the RDA is just flat-out wrong to try and take Pandoran resources by force. They have no right to be there, they have no right to the stupidly-named unobtanium, and they certainly don't have the right to kill anyone in an attempt to take what isn't theirs.

The audience sees it very plainly, but conservative pundits are on their guard because they've been apologising for similar, real-life behavior in Iraq and Afghanistan (which are only the most recent examples of American 'colonialism', but that's a whole other issue) for nearly 10 years now.

So conservatives can't 'just enjoy the movie' - they have to resist everything its telling them.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 11:44:23 AM by JackFrost »

Offline ohcheap1

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2010, 12:06:25 PM »
But the military in Avatar are actually private contractors (i.e., mercenaries) and not the US military, and the RDA is a corporation, not the US government. So that makes them the equivalent of Blackwater running security for Halliburton.


Of everything "intentional" that Cameron supposedly did through out this movie I would believe that making RDA non-US military was actually a preconcieved idea. And a respectable one at that. That said, when I watched it I immediately thought "US military" until you-know-who pointed out the contrary. And Im glad to have that point made. Changes things a bit.

Offline goldshirt*9

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2010, 01:25:29 AM »
what ever happened to just watching a movie for the sake of enjoyment.

some people must be feeling a little guilty if this is what they perceive the movie is all about

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2010, 07:33:21 AM »
First gays protesting because there were no gay acotrs or characters,, then conservatives pitching a fit because they feel guilty for crap theyve done.
What next? PETA throwing a fit, Greenpeace going nuts and protesting with a boat? The Montana Baptist Association and Hocky League going crazy because there wasnt enough bibles?
 Anything for some poor fool to get his name in the papers.
Next theyll pull the same crap they did with The Golden Compass saying its anti Christian.
 ITS A MOVIE FOLKS!!!!  GET OVER YOURSELF AND GET DOWN OFF THE FRIGGIN CROSS!!!
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Offline redlandslide

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2010, 03:34:24 PM »

Offline ohcheap1

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2010, 05:39:34 PM »
There is a better world than this out there...

There has to be.

Its what you make it my friend. We all have the ability to make it better one life at a time. But again.....who's the optimist here.

Offline redlandslide

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2010, 06:24:24 PM »
There is a better world than this out there...

There has to be.

Unfortunately, if it wants to stay better than here, it better hope humanity doesn't find it.

Offline CMF

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2010, 08:49:49 PM »
Jack, you are dreamer.

We need more of you.

Offline ohcheap1

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2010, 08:45:11 AM »
Its what you make it my friend. We all have the ability to make it better one life at a time. 
We all need to come together and make this a better place, goddamn it.

I think that is what I just said without the inflection on "all". But that brings up an interesting thought. How would society "make" every member want to do this, "have" to do this? Avatar is the story of a community of people focusing on certain key members. Are we to think within that community there arent people that have contray beliefs? Of course there are. But its the Leaders of said community that have written the laws by which they abide and respect.

It would fabulous if we had leaders that were strong enough to see our true flaws but even if they did how would they make them mainstream? It all seams so unsurmountable/over whelming//intimidating.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2010, 10:56:16 AM by ohcheap1 »

Offline JackFrost

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2010, 11:22:16 AM »
Jack, you are dreamer.

We need more of you.

No you don't.

The only thing that sucks more than me are my opinions.

Ask anyone.

Offline dweez

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2010, 12:44:34 PM »
The only thing that sucks more than me are my opinions.

That opinion sucks.
--dweez

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2010, 01:05:49 PM »
I know there is inteligent life out there.
How do I know its inteligent? It stays away from us.

I read a book once,, I cant remember the name or author, but it was a sci fi about a glactic war, and the search for an ilegal weapon to use against an oposing race.
They found earth and the humans were the ilegal weapon.

Go figure?
I keep my standards low.
That way im never disapointed.

Offline goldshirt*9

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2010, 01:21:28 PM »
I know there is inteligent life out there.
How do I know its inteligent? It stays away from us.


a classic quote

Offline ohcheap1

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2010, 10:58:14 AM »
No you don't.

At least you have an opinion. And relevant at that.

Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2010, 11:54:08 AM »
Unlike some people I know in the RL who have uninformed opinions.
I keep my standards low.
That way im never disapointed.

Offline Skadi

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2010, 02:44:40 PM »
Jack, you are dreamer.

We need more of you.

I came on here to see if anyone had mentioned the Avatar suicides... I scanned the thread, but hadn't seen any mention of them. I'll read through it again to double check that I'm not repeating someone.

Offline Skadi

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #55 on: March 01, 2010, 01:49:06 PM »
?Avatar? in 4D at Korean theaters
The smell of explosives, real sprinkling water, wind, motion-activated seats, and 25 other special effects have been added in a Seoul theater
for a full 4-dimensional experience of viewing Avatar.
A 4D screening costs $15.80 instead of the average $6.90 ticket price but the 88 seats at the Korean multiplex theater CJ-CGV are selling out. This has lead to opening another 4D theaters.
First 4D theater of its kind, the program was inaugurated last summer with Journey to the Center of the Earth, and has enjoyed success with several films over the last year and Percy Jackson & the Olympians: The Lightning Thief is next up.
Based on the success, Korea's Wonderworld Studio has partnered with the US-based Animation Picture Company a which specializes in special effects for films including Scooby Doo and Garfield, and announced it will launch 10 4D film "rides" this year.
RC

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/lsquoavatarrsquo-in-4d-at-korean-theaters-1905267.html





Offline Robin-Graves

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Re: Avatar
« Reply #56 on: March 01, 2010, 02:46:46 PM »
Reminds me of the "Feel oRama " skit in Kentucky Fried Movie

You know they did things like that with a movie back in the 50s,, It was called The Tingler.
Mario Bava and Dario Argento did similar things with a movie called Tenenbrae.
I keep my standards low.
That way im never disapointed.