Author Topic: Newtown Massacre  (Read 18342 times)

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Offline bubu

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #75 on: December 21, 2012, 06:34:47 PM »
A question to everybody ,what if this happened in a school or kindergarden and killed was a son or a nephew or a brother of yours? Do you still think it is a collateral damage? And everything can exactly continue as before?

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #76 on: December 21, 2012, 07:37:30 PM »
8ully, I agree with you that it's likely that many lawmakers need to be educated about firearms.  There also needs to be some standard established regarding terms like "assault" weapons and "automatic" "semi automatic" etc.  The problem is that people either own guns or they don't and those who don't know little about them except the fearmongering that comes about when this kind of tragedy occurs.  It's certainly understandable that people are crying for something to be done.  What happened was terrible, and it's a good thing to get the facts out, understand exactly what did occur and if anything could have been done differently that might have prevented it.

The way our governments enjoy varied spheres of influence between states, municipalities, and the Federal agencies, there are overlaps, inconsistencies, and different language that hampers and obscures gun ownership and the requirements from one place to another.  So the existing legislative framework is already piecemeal.  Slapping on some more bandaids is not the answer, but getting to a state of national understanding and consensus about this is crucial.  Dialogue is one way to get started on this.  People need to ask questions and to educate one another.  This doesn't mean everyone will agree, but at least people will be able to communicate and understand what guns are and how they work when they undertake to legislate the conditions of their use and ownership.  This isn't a small undertaking, either, but it's a necessary one.

Offline smokester

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #77 on: December 22, 2012, 12:16:44 PM »
PS - knee-jerk legislation the other way doesn't help either: the NRA's idea of having an armed guard in every school is every bit as stupid as the "ban guns" lobby.

A question to everybody ,what if this happened in a school or kindergarden and killed was a son or a nephew or a brother of yours? Do you still think it is a collateral damage? And everything can exactly continue as before?

No, I would not consider this collateral damage (see my post above). I would, however, hope that I could resist the temptation to jump on the "something must be done" bandwagon.

I am not against laws that help. I am against laws that don't help, even when they are popular.





Criminals can and will find a way to get around laws. I'm not saying that makes the laws irrelevant, just that criminals find a way.

Lanza was not a criminal before this act, or at least not that I know of. 

I live in the gun capital of London - if not the entire U.K. - and even here you'd stand no chance removing firearms from that particular element of society even with the extremely tough laws.  That said, most of the guns a crude and even converted replica and blank firing pistols, and as I have mentioned, ammo isn't easy to get.  Whilst that means that gun crime is rife and that people are getting shot, it is confined to those certain groups and none of them are going to arm a weird kid and wave him on his way. 

That is why my argument isn't about American gun ownership per se, but I do believe the absence of firearms here (generally speaking) means that it is not easy for those who breakdown to go on a killing spree.

China has some of the toughest gun laws in the world and virtually no gun crime.  I don't believe that is a coincidence.
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Offline bubu

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #78 on: December 22, 2012, 01:30:05 PM »
PS - knee-jerk legislation the other way doesn't help either: the NRA's idea of having an armed guard in every school is every bit as stupid as the "ban guns" lobby.

No, I would not consider this collateral damage (see my post above). I would, however, hope that I could resist the temptation to jump on the "something must be done" bandwagon.

I am not against laws that help. I am against laws that don't help, even when they are popular.
But as 6pairofshoes suggested have common laws in all Usa could not be an help? And wich is your idea of a law that help?

Lanza was not a criminal before this act, or at least not that I know of. 

I live in the gun capital of London - if not the entire U.K. - and even here you'd stand no chance removing firearms from that particular element of society even with the extremely tough laws.  That said, most of the guns a crude and even converted replica and blank firing pistols, and as I have mentioned, ammo isn't easy to get.  Whilst that means that gun crime is rife and that people are getting shot, it is confined to those certain groups and none of them are going to arm a weird kid and wave him on his way. 

That is why my argument isn't about American gun ownership per se, but I do believe the absence of firearms here (generally speaking) means that it is not easy for those who breakdown to go on a killing spree.

China has some of the toughest gun laws in the world and virtually no gun crime.  I don't believe that is a coincidence.
Today example, a fool in Sicily shoot from a balcony on the crowd but because he had only an hunting rifle with small bullets all he accomplished was to injure a policeman on a cheek and get killed...
What if he had access to bigger guns?

Offline 8ullfrog

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #79 on: December 22, 2012, 05:24:46 PM »
Hunting rifle's don't fire small rounds unless you're talking about a .22.

Offline Beatrix

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Re: Newtown Massacre
« Reply #80 on: December 23, 2012, 02:46:34 AM »
What if he had access to bigger guns?
bubu, in this case though, if this man really wanted to hurt someone, he would have.  Running out and physically injuring people is still way easier than trying to obtain a proper gun in his country, so if he wanted to hurt someone, for real, he would have cut them.  It's like people who cry suicide, like crying wolf, they just want attention.  Who knows?  Maybe he was a cowardly lion type, and could not bring himself to come in such close contact to murder people, and then, you would be right.