Author Topic: Asteroid belt menus  (Read 5544 times)

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Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Asteroid belt menus
« on: January 29, 2023, 04:30:09 AM »
Watching The Expanse, I often thought about what you might be able to eat in space and/or on other planets with Terrestial foods that had to adapt to a variety of non Earthlike conditions.

Spinach may be out.  It's hard to imagine having enough sunlight for such plants.  How would you do this if you could?  Grow lights?  Hydroponic gardens?

Fungus and other non chlorophyl based plants might have a better chance there.  But how Holden got coffee in the asteroid belt past Mars is a mystery unless it was shipped out from Earth.  One dish you hear about often is a fungus based curry.  That would make sense.  Quorn burgers (mushroom based proteins) could work.  Meat like beef, lamb, pork?  That would probably not work very well, since you would most likely not have enough grains or plant based feed to support those animals.

Any other ideas about what you could eat on a trip to Jupiter or that region?

Offline 8ullfrog

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2023, 06:30:13 AM »
I make no secret that I absolutely love this poo.

We have a Big Kahuna Burger in Imperial Beach, and yes they have Sprite.

Unfortunately, it's a surfy-durfy shithole, and the burgers are not the crap implied by the movie (Pulp Fiction)

As to astronaut food, I imagine it would be awful. They went into it a bit at the end of battlestar galactica, they were all eating algae puffs. Those must have been the nastiest shower scum cookies imaginable.

In Babylon 5 they went into this a bit, how phone calls were obscenely expensive (no cashless society there) and an Orange was worth more than it's weight in gold.

Garibaldi also watched Looney Tunes, which was afforded to him as a Turner Property.

Found a list of alien food from B5, they don't really go into the orange thing.
https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Food_and_Drinks
« Last Edit: January 29, 2023, 06:33:44 AM by 8ullfrog »

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2023, 01:23:21 PM »
Tea - Earl Grey - Hot.

You'd probably have to bring that with you from Earth, given the difficulty of establishing tea plantations.  Finding planets that are amenable to terraforming would probably be rare.  But what do I know?  I'm no astronaut.

I know Tang, the orange beverage that the Astronauts drank, which, as best I can figure out is probably a mix of sugar, citric acid and natural flavors.  Then there are the A-OK Space Food Sticks.  Those are probably a version of something like a cylindrical PowerBar.  I don't think I ever had one.

8ully, that menu is the product of the imagination of some Hollywood script writers.  One of the stronger aspects of The Expanse was the Martian botanist who spent all his efforts finding edible plants that could be raised under glass domes.  But I was thinking of the hostile conditions of Belter life, of those miners and other grunts who lived on the asteroid belt where even the conditions on Mars seemed posh by comparison.  They're all living on some kinds of fungus based foods and downing various synthetic alcoholic drinks.  I don't know where they got their calcium, but their less dense skeletal structures seem a combo of their diets and their life in low gravity conditions.

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2023, 03:54:12 PM »
Nope. Replicators.

Hell's Bells.  Why leave home in the first place if you have that technology?  One presumes President George Santos pushed one too many buttons and blew up the planet?

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2023, 08:34:06 PM »
Eating on the International Space Station.

Offline 8ullfrog

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2023, 06:27:58 AM »
Buzz bless'ed hates tang and went out his way to disparage it.

Replicators - Why leave indeed, but at the same time, it also cuts down on storage and spoilage, allowing for a longer journey.

In the Mass Effect games they introduce a weird chirality issue that I don't think actually works the way they wrote it.

Dextro species have to eat dextro, Levi species have to eat Levi, and woe onto anyone who mixes things up.

https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Foods

Back to Stargate, I presume no one ever told Teal'c ice cream is made of milk. He actually registers disgust when offered "bovine lactose" But even when under brainwashing he still loves his Ben & Jerry's.

In one episode, Carter tries Asgard food triangles. She looks disgusted.

https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Food

And who could forget Kassa, the addictive corn? (That poo was hilarious)

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2023, 09:20:58 AM »
So how do these replicators work?  They produce mass out of ideas?  They transform one mass into another?  With what knowledge?  Do they have a model to replicate or is that information stored on some kind of hard drive?

I'm struggling to understand how they save space and spoilage.  So how does one produce a cup of Earl Grey tea out of thin air?  Presumably, you would have a water supply and access to the basic elements of its chemical composition, but that's a tall order:  tea leaves, bergamot oil, etc.  And if they produce this the way I like it, it's not just any Earl Grey -- some of the commercially produced varieties are so acerbic that they can peel paint -- it would have to be one that is acceptable, with a splash of milk or half & half (a substance I'm not sure is sold in the UK, let alone producible in space).  Color me skeptical.  Safer to stow it away in the cargo bay, but that is another issue:  weight, storage time, etc.

I forgot the part about addictive corn.  It's been a long time since I viewed Stargate.  I enjoyed the series but I don't know that I'd want to view it again.  What I liked about The Expanse was the effort put into really thinking through the problems of remote food production.  Stargate just assumes lots of planets with breathable atmosphere and quaint Tudor style agricultural villages with unique local cuisines.  That's charming but probably not realistic.

I also liked the NASA video because they have a team of food scientists worrying about all kinds of practical issues like pathogens that might replicate in the foods, so packaging and storage/spoilage are legitimate concerns.  I don't know that I'd be so happy to have tortillas smeared with honey but I guess after a while if that's what's on the menu, you'd eat it and be happy to have it.

Offline dweez

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2023, 11:34:05 AM »
I also think, at least in TNG and later, stuff like bathroom waste and trash is "recycled" for the energy. And the replicators can only make items already saved into the computers (extremely large) database or what is programmed in by an individual (like the hologram scenarios they make up in Voyager).
--dweez

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2023, 04:00:22 PM »
Substrate. 

I'm reminded of the replicated "food" on 2001 a Space Odyssey.  Looks good from a distance, but maybe that's all we can hope for, being taken in by aliens, housed in a zoo, and fed some sort of version of their idea of Earth nourishment.

As for the recycled waste.  I guess that makes sense if you have a replicator.  I think chris' assessment of the likelihood of our killing ourselves before this ever becomes an issue is pretty high.


Offline 8ullfrog

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2023, 09:17:17 PM »
Sadly, NuPoo Trek has touched on this. Discovery in both cases.

Captain Nazi Pedophile (They didn't want viewers liking the character) Praises Elon Musk before offering Michael Burnham some fortune cookies.

A few seasons later, and admiral screams and screams about replicated apples being made of poo.

Someone needs to confiscate Star Trek for a while. Just smack anyone reaching for it with a "NO!"

Offline 8ullfrog

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2023, 03:35:05 PM »
Unfortunately, CBS trek, now "Paramount" trek is very much interested in getting out the white out and very much inserting sexual politics all over the place.

As to Canon, I believe it's been broken down by whoever held the rights at the time.

So you've got NBC canon with the original series, Viacom for TNG through ENT, and then CBS took over.

Honestly, this poo makes me sad and I don't like to think about it.

I know not everyone is a gamer here, but in the Star Trek: Voyager game "Elite Force" you can look up recipes that Neelix would use. They... don't quite fit.

You end up fighting lobster cockroach enemies towards the end of the game (it makes sense in context)

Neelix scavenges their corpses and has them in the galley. :/

Apparently there was a neelix cookbook, but I'm not willing to track it down. If it shows up in goodwill I'll snatch it in a second.

I actually managed to snag a still cardback figure of Harry Kim from voyager for $2 at goodwill. He sits in a roughneck bin.

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2023, 07:00:51 PM »
Lobster cockroach.  That sounds like an intriguing dish.

I expect there are lots more of them than in the sea and you would prepare them the same way?  Lobster is delicious.  For some reason, I always get nominated to be the lobster killer, tossing the poor live crustaceans in the boiling pot.  I know there is a lobster hell somewhere where I'm on the entrance list.

It's Dungeness crab season.  I don't know that you'd get these kinds of tasty crustaceans on other planets.

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2023, 11:26:32 AM »
There's also cockroach milk, but that seems unsustainable in space.  This article came via my morning email and it has a curious overview of superfoods and the projected foods in a pill that remind me of the problems that have to be confronted with long term space travel.
https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/superfoods-of-the-future-from-cockroach-milk-to-dna-personalized-meals/?utm_medium=email&_hsmi=248101984&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_ihwImzSqp4BBut_J9bYjI8T9WKfsAptBSoP9NxkNgV14u3QC01ztZiVbugh2eyMmW0hhH-n8usCDsPOV0udybUbuKXg&utm_content=248101984&utm_source=hs_email

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2023, 07:26:47 PM »
Maybe I dreamt it but I am reminded of a movie called "Robinson Crusoe on Mars" in which he finds a pool of water with something resembling crustaceans and eats them.  I think he was ill afterward.  Does anyone remember that movie?

It was pure fantasy as there's most likely no liquid water on Mars.  It had Adam West, aka "Batman" in the title role.

Offline dweez

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2023, 09:01:41 PM »
Maybe I dreamt it but I am reminded of a movie called "Robinson Crusoe on Mars" in which he finds a pool of water with something resembling crustaceans and eats them.  I think he was ill afterward.  Does anyone remember that movie?

It was pure fantasy as there's most likely no liquid water on Mars.  It had Adam West, aka "Batman" in the title role.

Never heard of it but you appear to have all the details correct.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058530/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinson_Crusoe_on_Mars

You can even watch it again if you want to.
https://www.justwatch.com/us/movie/robinson-crusoe-on-mars
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Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2023, 10:31:20 AM »
Ah.  You've gotta love the internet.  I don't remember this film as being one of those that would stand up to a second viewing.  Maybe a candidate for Mystery Science Theatre?

I don't think of lots of SciFi films where people eat much.  Maybe they take nutrition for granted.  Star Trek came up with the mystery "get what you want" replicator food distribution, kind of like a souped up Automat for the future.

Offline 8ullfrog

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2023, 08:46:50 AM »
I know it's been quite a while, but even on star trek they complained about the replicators being crap. They had a whole song and dance with Counselor Troi, arguing with the replicator about chocolate (fuggin youtube nuked the clip) but Voyager shockingly did it better. Hot. Plain. Tomato soup.

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2023, 05:07:04 PM »
I wonder where they even get raw ingredients in space?  That they could synthesize or even grow the plants that produce tomatoes seems a bit much.  Ever since I read the Expanse series, I frequently think "I doubt I'd be eating citrus on an asteroid belt, or chocolate, or......"  The fragility of our terrestial botany really stands out the more I think  about the intensity of sunlight, the warmth, the moisture, so many factors that could cause disaster by their absence or overprevalence.

It's funny to hear that guy so frustrated with the replicator.  I felt that way when I was logging on to my credit card acct today, realizing I'd forgotten my p/w again and getting annoyed at all the hoops I had to jump through just to pay a bill.  I guess it beats writing a check and posting it.

Offline 8ullfrog

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2023, 07:24:23 PM »
Star Trek does handwave some details, but the replicator is described as a "matter resequencer". (My browser does not like that word)
Voyager actually runs into exactly that problem; they can't stop by a starbase and resupply.

Their solution is to pick up a local guide, who enjoys the flavor of mold. (Neelix)

Replicator use is strictly rationed in the delta quadrant, so you're going to be eating Neelix's cooking whether you like it or not.
Neelix is also a known liar, so he may be feeding them bad tasting stuff on purpose.

Delta Quadrant food run:
« Last Edit: December 02, 2023, 07:36:04 PM by 8ullfrog »

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2023, 11:28:10 AM »
Wow.  That's sad.  Funny how some foods that look appetizing via their resemblance to others can be toxic.  I quit watching Star Trek after TNG.  I just lost interest.  Stargate was more fun and Battlestar Galactica.  I can't remember what they ate in either one of those shows, though.

Offline 8ullfrog

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2023, 09:31:01 PM »
Ds9 went into the mechanics of things a lot more, they even occasionally visited "waste extraction".
Power makes a bit more sense on DS9, they're running a massive fusion reactor (It's the red, gem like thing hanging from the bottom of the station.)

One of the few things I disliked about BSG is they would occasionally "borrow" plot points or character interactions from Ds9.

DS9 also has restaurants, including one that is just called KLINGON RESTAURANT. The chef of said restaurant sings opera.

They have a replimat for the federation communists that don't really have money, but Starfleet gives the officers stationed on Ds9 a stipend, so they can hit the bar for real, genuine Root Beer.

Battlestar Galactica at the start the ships had frozen food storage, they kind of bent that up in the episode "Black Market" which is widely considered one of the worst in the series.

Stargate had the comissary, and it was occasionally vital to the week's plot.


Unlike Star Trek, Replicators are bad guys.
Later on they get matter sequencing from the asgard.

I could not find the vital debate Jack had with Daniel about potatoes. :(
« Last Edit: December 03, 2023, 09:42:24 PM by 8ullfrog »

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2023, 01:08:48 AM »
Ha!  I'd forgotten both the commissary and the replicators on SG.

As for the Klingon restaurant that was run by an opera singer, I used to go to an Italian restaurant in Boston's North End that had singing waiters.  They would actually sing about how great it was to eat there, and the cooks would sing back from the kitchen.  That place was amazing.  It had great food and the best canolis I've had anywhere.  Villa Francesca.  I don't know if it's still there.

Offline 8ullfrog

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2023, 10:50:16 PM »
Youtube has fed me an amazing, anti-replicated meal.


The video has Troi's anti-replicator rant on chocolate.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2023, 10:52:48 PM by 8ullfrog »

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2023, 03:45:44 AM »
That was entertaining.  It also made me glad that I stopped with TNG.

There's so many odd fruits on Earth with multiple ways of preparation.  Lately I have been exploring persimmons because they are so plentiful here this time of year.  Slightly oblong orange fruits with pulp the consistency of snot and a mild sweet flavor.  They make nice puddings and cookies.

Offline 8ullfrog

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2023, 11:41:13 PM »
I completely forgot that Melora and Julian went to KLINGON RESTAURANT, but that's because I hate that episode.

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2023, 06:16:29 PM »
Klingons seem like evolved heavy metal musicians.  I don't think their cuisine would be much to my liking.  Probably like intergalactic road food or something.

Offline 6pairsofshoes

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2023, 05:47:37 PM »
This podcast makes me think that, if we ever make it into space, eating will be the least of our worries.  https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9mZWVkcy5zaW1wbGVjYXN0LmNvbS81NG5BR2NJbA?sa=X&ved=0CBEQlvsGahcKEwiYluyZgpWDAxUAAAAAHQAAAAAQLA

And to think, a trip to the Int'l Space Station is only 250 miles.  It's a longer trip to Los Angeles from San Francisco.

Offline 8ullfrog

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Re: Asteroid belt menus
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2023, 09:41:39 AM »
I remembered you talking about 2001 - A space odyssey, and it popped up on my facebook feed today.

A tray filled with pastes, and a fairly odd spoon type instrument to scoop with.
They are heated in a radar range (essentialy a microwave)
The meals are thought up in huston and a nutritional regiment is specialized.
There are 18 varieties.
When the astronaut is done eating, they put their tray in a cleaning slot pretty much identical to a standard dishwasher.

I find it interesting how close it is to the ISS video you posted.

In regular movies, Ice cream tends to be mashed potatoes, under film lighting ice cream would melt before the scene was finished.