Author Topic: A working real World Warp-drive !!!  (Read 12357 times)

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Offline davidsolomon83

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A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« on: June 13, 2009, 03:16:03 PM »
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"Star Trek" makes faster-than-light travel look easy, but according to new calculations by Italian physicists, a warp drive could easily create a black hole that would incinerate any passengers on a space craft and then suck Earth into a black hole.

"Warp drives are so far the best case scenario to attain faster-than-light travel," said Stefano Finazzi of Italy's International School for Advanced Studies. This paper "makes it much harder to realize, if not almost impossible, warp drives."

In normal physics, nothing can move faster than the speed of light. Einstein's theory of relativity forbids it. In normal space any object approaching the speed of light will increase in mass exponentially, and require an exponential increase in the amount of power needed to propel it forward.

There are two exceptions to this rule however. The first is what's commonly called a worm hole, a bridge connecting two different parts of space. A ship crossing this bridge would move at below light speed, but still arrive before a beam of light that would have had to go the long way around.

Warp drives are the second and more appealing option. A ship can't move through space faster than the speed of light. But with enough energy, space itself can move faster than the speed of light.

Known for the Mexican physicist Michael Alcubierre who originally developed the idea in the 1990's, an Alcubierre warp drive would create a bubble of energy behind the ship and a lack of energy in front of the ship, like a giant cosmic wave a space ship could surf. That particular section of space can travel faster than the speed of light in the surrounding space, and anything on or in that bubble will accelerate with it.

Finazzi and his colleagues propose creating this bubble of space-time by using a massive amount of "exotic matter," or dark energy. (Exactly how this bubble would be created is still a mystery.) According to their calculations and simplified, it would take a huge amount of energy to create the bubble, and then increasing amounts of energy to contain the highly repulsive dark energy.

Eventually the energy would run out. The bubble would rupture, with catastrophic effects. Inside the bubble the temperature would rise to about 10^32 degrees Kelvin, destroying almost anything on the bubble.

Anyone watching the ship nearby wouldn't be much better off.

"We know that the warp drive will be destabilized," said Finazzi. "But we do not know if it will in the end explode or collapse to a black hole."

Other physicists agree with the Italians' calculations, up to a point.

"It's a good paper; their results are sound," said Gerald Cleaver, a professor of physics at Baylor University who reviewed the work. The results make sense, at least, when creating warp drive using exotic matter in a universe where 1 plus 1 equals 2.

In a universe where 1 plus 1 equals 3, a possibility with string theory instead of the semi classical physics used by the Italians, a stable warp drive is viable.

Last year Cleaver and co-author Richard Obousy detailed a string theory-based warp drive that creates a bubble of space time by expanding one of the tiny, rolled-up dimensions (instead of a bubble of dark energy) predicted by string theory.

The biggest sticking point to a extra dimension-based warp drive? The entire mass of Jupiter would have to be converted into pure energy to power it.

The real question is not whether a warp drive, which by Cleaver's estimate is hundreds of years away, will be stable or not. It's about the fundamentals of the universe; do we live in a universe where 1 plus 1 equals 2 or 3? Until scientists can answer that question, there will be significant limitations on scientific models of the universe.

"These papers suggest limitations to what we can and can't do," said Cleaver. "We as scientists enjoy these papers because then we can look for ways to get around those limitations."




hundreds of years away,  :-\ , but hundreds of years ago if you had told someone we walk on the moon, they would have laughed at you  ;)

Offline hmed2390

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Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2009, 12:36:21 AM »
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The entire mass of Jupiter would have to be converted into pure energy to power it.
Oh my.  :-\

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do we live in a universe where 1 plus 1 equals 2 or 3? Until scientists can answer that question, there will be significant limitations on scientific models of the universe.
That's an interesting point. I really like that question. I'm going to read into that whole idea.

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hundreds of years away,  :-\ , but hundreds of years ago if you had told someone we walk on the moon, they would have laughed at you  ;)

That's the spirit.  ;)
Great thread david, really awesome read. :)
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. -Mark Twain

Offline davidsolomon83

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Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2009, 04:58:04 PM »
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The entire mass of Jupiter would have to be converted into pure energy to power it.


The first time I read the article, I thought, OK, so it need a lot of energy.............But

later on I thought, this is the e = mc 2 energy, only a few grams of the heavy elements produce so much, and then take fusion ( the process inside stars ) and thats even more, and when you consider all m ( which is Jupiter ; some hundreds of times that of earth ) then it is a lot of energy   :-\

Offline Skadi

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Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2009, 08:44:03 AM »
The subtitle under one of the phots is a bit alarming also :o

Star Trek makes faster-than-light travel look easy, but new calculations show a warp drive could easily create a black hole that would incinerate any passengers on a space craft and then suck Earth into a black hole.

 :D

Offline davidsolomon83

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Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2009, 02:20:29 PM »
^ more like sci-fi dark humor Skadi  :-\



I wonder if we will ever be able to make a warp drive in the real physical world

Offline Skadi

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Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2009, 06:32:01 PM »
Yes, but them we'll blow ourselves up immediately after :D Humans are too stupid to live.

Offline smokester

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Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2009, 08:43:13 AM »
Humans are too stupid to live.

Hey!! They're my ancestors you're talking about.
Don't put off until tomorrow, what you can put off until the day after.

There is an exception to every rule, apart from this one.

Offline davidsolomon83

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Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2009, 09:20:42 AM »
looking at smokes AVA and then speaking in hmed's tone and voice...............

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^ Hey! thats my ancestor talking about my ancestors
  ;)  :D

Offline hmed2390

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Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2009, 09:53:20 PM »
looking at smokes AVA and then speaking in hmed's tone and voice...............
  ;)  :D

a rather sexy tone it is no?  ;D :D
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. -Mark Twain

Offline subvinorosa

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Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2009, 04:28:40 AM »
I agree with anything you say. ;)

Offline hmed2390

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Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2009, 06:42:17 AM »
 ;) :P
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. -Mark Twain

Offline davidsolomon83

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Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2009, 09:27:37 PM »
^ i have always agreed with anything he says  :D it has always come naturally for me!!

If he was a gal, I would have married him  :o  :D  ;)

Offline Skadi

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Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2009, 10:57:10 AM »
^ *uses warp drive to rush to the printers and have wedding invitations designed*

Offline hmed2390

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Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2009, 11:16:42 PM »
^ i have always agreed with anything he says  :D it has always come naturally for me!!

If he was a gal, I would have married him  :o  :D  ;)

You could always go gay, but I can't guarantee you that I'll wait for you as long as Skadi's around.  :o ;D :D :D :D
A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. -Mark Twain

Offline Skadi

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Re: A working real World Warp-drive !!!
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2009, 06:19:26 AM »
You could always go gay, but I can't guarantee you that I'll wait for you as long as Skadi's around.  :o ;D :D :D :D

ha..that's what I'd meant... a wedding for you and David. That last exchange had gotten a little cozy and wistul on David's part regarding how wonderful you are :D